ep: do you think art or more specifically the art you do has anything to do with politics?

j: absolutely! specifically my process... because i'm influenced subliminally... let me think about this. you know... you can't separate the two... it's response... it's cyclical... they're synonymous... politics are imbedded in our culture... everything is so political... i mean it's like the change of the seasons... like, the japanese don't have a word for "fine art" or "nature" because it's so innate... such a part of life that it can't be separated... you know?

ep: before we proceed, perhaps you can define how you're thinking about or envisioning the word "politics"?

j: media. an oval blow-horn that someone speaks through... the word politics is kind of like a general domain that has a lot of specific categories... no way can i define it! it's so massive!

ep: can you name specific categories that influence you? not necessarily your artwork... just a category that influences you...

j: camouflage.

ep: how do you see "camouflage" as being a category of politics?

j: i wish political figures would instead of giving speeches, go around with a string around their neck with a plaque hanging off of it that listed all of their achievements... everything they ever did would be on that and that's the way we would vote... on what they did... not on their speeches, or charisma, or their sound bites... so much of what we know about politicians is packaged... you know?... and well, camouflage is an appearance for survival... politicians want to appear a certain way... they have to for survival... there's this massive consciousness about how we should appear to others... how we want to appear to others, that i guess is part of being human... but this brings me to illusion. what is illusion? appearance...

ep: and in your mind artwork has to do with politics because art work has to do with... ?

j: art is an illusion... it is an appearance. in general art is about appearance. there's presentation, you know? that's what i'm starting to learn... i'm becoming massively conscious that others are massively conscious... that's what drives me crazy! just in everyday life everybody is so aware of what they want to represent... art is the same way! that's why artists' attitudes bother me... appearance is everything to them... artists are pushing an image the same way politicians are... because they have to in order to be appreciated as an artist... it's about survival... we package ourselves for survival... it's not that we're disguising ourselves but...

ep: jen, do you think it's better to be pure or to be understood?

j: to be understood in a sense, because that's survival... i mean if you're in enough pain to want and need to be understood, purity is gonna go right out the window... and i'm certainly not gonna be one of those poor motherfuckers that shoots himself in the head!

ep: what are ways that help an artist to be understood?

j: patience. time. mileage. time passing. down time where nothing is happening... where you have to ride some stuff out... because that's gonna give you some purity... basically what we're working up to here, rach, is balls...

ep: and "balls" equals "purity"?

j: no. "balls" encompasses so much more than purity... it's adrenaline, it's passion.

ep: how is purity different than passion?

j: to be pure you have to be balanced... balls is passion... guts. purity i see as being more altruistic.

ep: now, when you're...

j: wait! see, if you go back to the beginning here... back to politics... even as you interview me i'm worried about how i'll be perceived... that's politics... it's this massive, continuously aware of itself thing... aware of the changing perspectives... continuously aware of how people perceive me... i think a psychologist would have a blast with me!... are you gonna print that?

ep: well, yeah! o.k. let me bring this to another place... the n.e.a....

j: which i don't know much about! big fuzzy gray area... is that like the i.r.a.! let me see, am i catholic or protestant!

-hysterical laughter-

ep: does the the national endowment for the arts affect you in any way as an artist?

j: no.

ep: should it exist?

j: i guess... give someone a job! the government needs to create more office jobs! does it need to exist? no. it's important i guess because they give money to somebody... it's just one of those things that weaves itself back into itself... wait! back up... i want to know precisely at this point in time how many yale graduates have received n.e.a. grants!

-more hysterical laughter-

ep: so is it important at all?

j: sure it's important... it's a product of our society... because it funds some really good stuff... but for the life of me i can't think of what it supports that has any influence on my life... it's obviously not reaching me! i don't know what it supports... in that case i don't think it's that important.

ep: do you think it's appropriate for the government to dispense funds to artists so that they can have the freedom to create... for example europe...

j: oh! we love to say that! "if i went to sweden i'd get paid to be an artist by the government!" yeah! meanwhile you're arm's falling off and all the beds in the hospital are full! their medical systems are deteriorating! it seems to me that by the government passing out money to artists it promotes institutionalized thought... i can't picture it any other way.

ep: so basically you don't feel the government has any real influence or grounds to promote artwork in our society?

j: yeah.

ep: that because of this, and because we live in a capitalist and not a socialist system, art work must be shown though some sort of capitalist venue...

j: that's the need to be understood! but i'm not there yet... i haven't had to deal with capitalist venues... i'm not in a place where i have to be understood...

ep: do you want to survive as an artist?

j: yes. i'm sort of dealing with these issues right now... i'm trying not to take myself too seriously... that's my problem with the word "purity" -- it seems to equal "serious"... i guess i've got to mature... man this interview is excellent! you've got me thinking!

ep: now if i can make some leaps here... if we live within capitalism which is hallmarked by marketing which is...

j: packaging.

ep: ...which is part of camouflage which has to do with survival... and of course one of the catch phrases of capitalism is "survival of the fittest"... within the capitalist system how then can we define the fittest artist or the fittest politician of the fittest anything?

j: the best packaged... the best camouflaged... they survive.