ep: do you think art, or, more specifically the art you do, has anything to do with politics?

scott: pop culture always reflects politics... you can't escape it.

ep: can you be more specific?

scott: there are no specifics... pop culture is defined by the mass media, everything that is televised, printed etc. is what contributes to it... politics happen to be part of that.

andres: politics are promised... whatever the situation... where ever you go politics are there... it's up to you to fit into the puzzle of the politics...

ep: wait... maybe we should define for ourselves what politics are?

scott: i can't even define politics anymore...

ep: well... are you thinking government? music industry < nods in agreement to this > the people you have to deal with at shows?... what is it?

dustin: like tonight at the show when seven members of the audience got tossed by security... seven of our friends who drove up to see us and security tosses them for no real reason < i agree, i was witness to it. -ed. > and then security comes up and apologizes after to us... like they really care... and now we're trying to figure out how we can make it up to these guys that got booted... it's horrible.

ep: so politics is about how a group of people deal with each other< ? >... getting back to what i think scott was alluding to earlier, i.e., government politics... how do you as musicians in a band feel about the n.e.a.? does it have anything to do with you?

scott: the n.e.a.? does that still exist? i haven't heard anything about that since the 80's and the whole pisschrist, mapplethorpe issue... i know i have friends that depended upon it to live... they are painters... and now it doesn't seem to be there anymore.

andres: oh it's still there... the museums and pbs still get funding.

ep: well, do you think it should exist?

scott: yes! definitely... it has always existed in some form or another throughout history whether it be monarchies supporting the artists or look at europe and how their cultures support their artists... the n.e.a. is the only thing americans have that is even close to that.

ep: but does the n.e.a. have anything to do with you guys?

brad: naw... we're below all that... we just want people to have a good time at our shows.

scott: see we're part of pop culture and pop music is about a specific point in time... the art work that is being created that the n.e.a. funds is more universal, or should i say timeless... the n.e.a. has nothing to do with us... why should it? we can just go to w.e.a. and try to get a million dollar deal, because what musicians do can be marketed to the masses and we live in a capitalist system, god love it! i think capitalism is great! survival of the fittest ya know... but there is art work out there that is being made that is important, but it's not necessarily marketable so those artists need the n.e.a....

ep: but wait -- don't you see that for an artist to even try to get an n.e.a. grant its like a friggin' career... the application process and proposal writting... the effort it takes to be noticed by the n.e.a. as an individual artist is out of hand... it's like a full time job... you've got to be a career proposal writer...

brad: oh, i'm sure it's very competitive... just like w.e.a....

andres: the only difference between the n.e.a. and w.e.a. is that one is funded by tax dollars and operated by the government and the other is a private corporation which perpetuates itself with its own money and investments.

-the room is aflutter with conversation-

andres: look, the fine arts that do get funded by the n.e.a. are displayed at the disposal of the government, the stuff that w.e.a. picks up will get showcased in capitalistic venues...

scott: because of this and also because pop music is about a specific point in time i believe pop music has a much more powerful voice... < pause > this interview is so much better than our last interview... the kid kept going on about his "sensei".

steve: it was like, < singing > "enough about you... let's talk about my sensei for a while..."

-the room is filled with laughter-

ep: back to what brad said earlier about being "below" all this n.e.a. stuff... do you think what you do is different in anyway than what these "fine artists" are doing?

dustin: i don't think so... it's all creation.

steve: well, yeah, in some ways because we deal with hooks and marketability, which i don't think fine artists have to deal with...

ep: you don't think the paintings you see in any of the galleries which then end up in museums aren't dealing with hooks and marketability?! the painter in that situation ends up playing the hooks that sell, and maybe not painting what needs to be coming out of him or her...

steve: no, no, we don't just play stuff that we thinks gonna sell!...

mark: yeah! if we could get kenny g. and zamphir to play on this next song we'd be stylin'...

-much merriment ensues-

steve: the songs shape themselves... i mean there are only so many ways to write a song...

scott: i guess what steve was trying to say earlier is that we have to deal with the mass consumption of our product and fine artists don't necessarily have to deal with that...

ep: how does dealing with the fact that you are making a product for mass consumption affect the way you create?

steve: look, we're not about writing songs that we think are gonna sell... i mean, you'd have to be some pop genius like the beatles or -- no, sting -- or somebody that sits down and concously writes songs that are going to sell... i play because i love this music... the songs shape themselves... it's not intentional... there's no formula...

ep: there's no formula?... wait -- you just said there are only so many ways to write a song...

that implies a formula... and listening to your music i wouldn't say it's completely random as to how you guys set it up... quite the contrary...

steve: well there's only so many ways to write a song... there's the intro, the verse, the bridge, the breakdown and the end... ya know...

ep: so there is a formula?...

scott: well, there's the form of pop music... i mean music all through history has had a form look at classical music which was the pop music of it's time... you work within that recognizable form... see the beauty of popular music is that because of it's simple form it is constantly reinventing itself... i mean there are only 12 notes in western music... but pop music keeps changing... it's amazing!

andres: pop music is an endless search for originality within a form...

steve: i mean when i'm talking about the parts of a song... that's arranging, what we play in those parts is spontaneous and then those spontaneous things stick and the parts become a song.

brad: musicians use the parts of a song to communicate... arranging... you know composition... the form helps you to be understood.

ep: i guess it's the same thing in painting... the composition, arranging the elements helps you to be understood... but my personal quandary is how much of composition is a cheesy "hook"? is it better to be pure or to be understood?

brad: can't the pure thing be an almagamation of the two? i mean you have to communicate... there's nothing "unpure" about that...

scott: look at oasis... they're all about hooks... obviously influenced by the beatles... and people buy it and love it because it communicates something to them that they understand... but it's not like we say, "hey guys oasis is selling let's do one like that... " no! but things influence you... you can't help it...

ep: what influences you?

the group: sex... naked pictures... new equipment... the radio...

ep: what do you listen to on the radio?

steve: everything...

scott: yeah, right you fucking suburbanite...

steve: no, i really do! classical, jazz, funk, disco... along with all the regular radio stuff... i listen to the radio a lot...

mark: steve listens to heavy metal classical...

steve: that would be wagner...

scott: yeah wagner was the first heavy meal guy and liszt was van halen!

dustin: stravinsky was sonic youth!

scott: handel was all pop... he was the beatles but then mozart took over the pop title...

andres: brahms was the first yuppie!

-more laughter-

ep: back to the question of being pure or understood...

brad: if you want people to hear your work then these two issues are equally pulling forces... they push you... it's all about communicating...

scott: i mean what good is it if i write a book that nobody can understand but me?

ep: that's what i'm talking about... being pure... don't you think that since we're all human beings that there is something that is universal within us that perhaps sometimes gets expressed in ununderstandable ways... say you wrote that book that nobody could understand, but that book influenced a whole bunch of stuff that soon would become understandable... see what i'm getting at with the "pure" thing...

brad: that's evolution...

scott: well look at nietzsche! nobody understood him and he died a pauper... but he was "pure"... it took something like 20 years for people to groove to him.

steve: i live to perform... that's what's pure to me...

scott: dance, dance, dance, party, party, party!

mark: you can just write dance cubed... party cubed...

scott: it's so hard to say what's pure because we're all influenced by so many things... i mean just because of our age the '80's influenced us a lot you know... but that's not to say were an '80's band! we're very '90's...

ep: what's the difference between '80's and '90's music in your opinion?

scott: well in the '80's all the music was easily categorized... oh that's rock... oh that's disco... oh that's punk... or techno you know? in the ninties musicians seem to just do what they do... there's a lot of cross over in styles... the whole "alternative" thing made everything pop music.

ep: what do you attribute this change to?

dustin: people are just more open now...

ep: why? do you think it's because of more media exposure to these diverse elements?...

mark: yeah...

scott: that and the music industry itself... it has truly stepped in and become an industry... everything is marketable now... it used to be in the '80's that there was a niche and there would be one or two absolutely huge bands that the industry would push in each niche... there's no more stadium bands... but there are a lot more successful bands now... a lot more diversity in what is popular... that's marketing for you... that's capitalism... get it out to the masses...

brad: i mean, i think artists should get paid for their work... there's nothing wrong with that... if we could get signed then we'd be free...

ep: what?

brad: right now we all work 8 hours a day so that we can do music... that's tough... but we all love it so... but money equals freedom... if we could get signed then we wouldn't have to work 8 hours a day doing something unrelated to music and our music would get better ...

ep: well it's already quite impressive... you guys put on a quality show... i truly hope you do get signed and best of luck dealing with the politics you'll have to handle in order to get were you want to be... i guess that's why god made managers! thank you so much for you time!... i had a blast tonight!